05-18-2021, 11:24 AM
Hi Cameron, thx for the reply!
>Can you suggest a suitable format that might work for the range of games that Ludii supports?
To describe general board games, not only sgf, but every format will have its limitations. I am afraid that for every suggested format, we can construct game rules where it fails to save a game.
For best compatibility with existing game engines I would recommend to include (and if necessary extend) the following two existing formats:
1) The extended FEN of the GUI xboard/winboard-Alien. This one can handle Checkers, Reversi, Go, Amazons and Chess/Chessvariants including multiplayer-variants (https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...528x-tC8pN), variants with die (http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=60688) and with hidden information (http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopi...20#p388439).
Limitations: the most significant one seems to be the one-letter-names for the pieces, so that there are only up to 22 different pieces per game possible.
The expert in this area is of course xboard-author H.G. Muller.
2) The zsg format of "Zillions of games". Although the Zillions-engine fits only for deterministic games, the zsg format is able to save also games with die (https://www.zillionsofgames.com/cgi-bin/...how;id=107) and with hidden info (https://www.zillionsofgames.com/cgi-bin/...how;id=201).
Zillions has also not the 22-piece-limitation mentioned for xboard.
Another highlight is, that there exists an adapter between xboard and Zillions (http://andreas.pbworks.com/w/page/273666...of%20Games), so that Zillions can use strong xboard engines for chess/chessvariants.
So, for compatibility reasons and the ability to have in Ludii engine matches with strong existing engines, I would recommend to consider the xboard-Alien FEN-format or the zsg format (plus the xboard-Zillions- adapter).
Regards,
Michael
>Can you suggest a suitable format that might work for the range of games that Ludii supports?
To describe general board games, not only sgf, but every format will have its limitations. I am afraid that for every suggested format, we can construct game rules where it fails to save a game.
For best compatibility with existing game engines I would recommend to include (and if necessary extend) the following two existing formats:
1) The extended FEN of the GUI xboard/winboard-Alien. This one can handle Checkers, Reversi, Go, Amazons and Chess/Chessvariants including multiplayer-variants (https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...528x-tC8pN), variants with die (http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=60688) and with hidden information (http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopi...20#p388439).
Limitations: the most significant one seems to be the one-letter-names for the pieces, so that there are only up to 22 different pieces per game possible.
The expert in this area is of course xboard-author H.G. Muller.
2) The zsg format of "Zillions of games". Although the Zillions-engine fits only for deterministic games, the zsg format is able to save also games with die (https://www.zillionsofgames.com/cgi-bin/...how;id=107) and with hidden info (https://www.zillionsofgames.com/cgi-bin/...how;id=201).
Zillions has also not the 22-piece-limitation mentioned for xboard.
Another highlight is, that there exists an adapter between xboard and Zillions (http://andreas.pbworks.com/w/page/273666...of%20Games), so that Zillions can use strong xboard engines for chess/chessvariants.
So, for compatibility reasons and the ability to have in Ludii engine matches with strong existing engines, I would recommend to consider the xboard-Alien FEN-format or the zsg format (plus the xboard-Zillions- adapter).
Regards,
Michael