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+--- Thread: Errors in Manalath and Shobu (/showthread.php?tid=585)
Errors in Manalath and Shobu - fbarbe - 06-01-2021
Hi,
I just wanted to report what I believe to be two incorrect implementations:
- The implementation of Manalath seems to be wrong: first person to make a group of 4 should always lose, not win. I have attached a simple trial where that is not the case (manalath.trl winner should be P1 instead of P2) and another trial where it works correctly (manalath2.trl).
- The implementation of Shobu allows for an aggressive move to push 2 or more enemy pieces: that should not be allowed as described in the game rules: "
Note: An Aggressive move CANNOT push two stones at once, nor can it push a stone of your own color.
https://ultraboardgames.com/shobu/game-rules.php
Fabio
RE: Errors in Manalath and Shobu - Eric Piette - 06-01-2021
Hi Fabio,
For Manalath, the official rules are there https://spielstein.com/games/manalath/rules (I am going to update the source).
And yes our implementation is not perfectly accurate with them. The rules are saying that the groups of 5 to win or of 4 to loss have to check only with the pieces of the mover at the end of his turn (which means if the previous player made a group of 4 with the pieces of the mover, if the mover can modify that group in a group of 5, it will win at his turn, but if he does another move not modifying that group of 4 it will loss).
I updated the rules in Ludii to follow these rules.
For Shobu, I tried to push 2 pieces with an aggressive move and that was not allowed in the short play I just did. Do you have a trial for me to see that happening?
Regards,
Eric
RE: Errors in Manalath and Shobu - fbarbe - 06-01-2021
Hi,
I couldn't replicate the error I had with Shobu.
Must have been a mistake from my side, sorry for that.
Best,
Fabio
RE: Errors in Manalath and Shobu - fbarbe - 06-04-2021
There also seems to be an error with the implementation of Dala, where a player should be allowed to make a line of 4 although that does not lead to a capture (according to the rules on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dala_(game) )
I was also wondering if this game has been mathematically proven. It seems to me that the first player can always force a win. Does anyone know if that is the case?
I have attached what I believe is a correct version of Data.
Best,
Fabio
RE: Errors in Manalath and Shobu - Eric Piette - 06-04-2021
Hi,
That's a DLP game, the rules of Wikipedia are irrelevant. The Wikipedia rules are often wrong (or even invented without evidence) compared to the real sources based on historical pieces of evidence for historians, and so the DLP project (e.g. Walter for our team)
I will ask Walter to check that game when he comes back from holidays because I do not see any mention of Line of 4 in the rules he wrote for it.
Regards,
Eric
RE: Errors in Manalath and Shobu - fbarbe - 08-15-2021
Hi,
I was finally able to replicate the error!
In shobu, Ludii allows for pushing two enemy's stones diagonally. I have attached a trial in which it happens (last move).
Let me know if you saw this reply or if I should post another post.
Best,
Fabio
RE: Errors in Manalath and Shobu - Eric Piette - 08-18-2021
Hi,
Just to let you know that I saw your message before you posted the other message :) I was in holiday, I just came back 2 days ago and we are all busy with the COG conference now. Anyway, that's fixed, see the other post.
Regards,
Eric