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+--- Thread: Lack of Tokin in ExtendedShogi set (/showthread.php?tid=1520)
Lack of Tokin in ExtendedShogi set - RubixOne - 03-23-2023
It seems the Tokin (と金 or と) is not included in the ExtendedShogi Set for the large Shogi variants. Most large Shogi variants include the Tokin to distinguish it from the unpromoted Gold General in the games that it appears in, and Tenjiku Shogi and Taikyoku Shogi both include a promotion to a Tokin for the Pawn, with no disputes about this point in the historical sources for either of them.
This means that the Tenjiku Shogi and Taikyoku Shogi Ludemes also need fixed, as they currently do not include the promotion to Tokin. This may also apply to the Tai Shogi, depending on the ruleset used.
RE: Lack of Tokin in ExtendedShogi set - Eric Piette - 04-03-2023
I added Tokin to the ShogiType in Ludii for the next release.
If you wish a modification to one of shogi games using, I will need more explanations and a source to justify it.
FYI: Sorry for the late answer, I was in holidays all the previous month.
Regards,
Eric
RE: Lack of Tokin in ExtendedShogi set - RubixOne - 04-04-2023
For both Tenjiku Shogi and Taikyoku Shogi, all historical sources (historical, Western, and modern) state that the Pawn promotes to Gold General/Tokin, with no disputes whatsoever.
Since Tenjiku Shogi is basically just an enlarged version of Chu Shogi, where the Pawn also undisputedly promotes to Gold General/Tokin, there is no reason whatsoever not to include the Pawn promotion in its ludeme. As for Taikyoku Shogi, sources were obviously much harder to come by, but the ones I found all have the Pawn promoting to a Gold General/Tokin.
Tenjiku Shogi sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenjiku_shogi
https://www.chessvariants.com/invention/tenjiku-shogi
https://web.archive.org/web/20050521122957/http://www.colina.demon.co.uk/tenjiku.pdf
http://history.chess.free.fr/tenjikushogi.htm
Taikyoku Shogi sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taikyoku_shogi
https://www.chessvariants.com/shogivariants.dir/taikyoku_english.html
Tai Shogi is a bit of a mixed bag, since its promotions are disputed, but in sources that state that the Pawn does promote, it undisputedly promotes to Gold General/Tokin.
RE: Lack of Tokin in ExtendedShogi set - Eric Piette - 04-18-2023
Hi,
Ok yes the Tai Shogi rules are still incomplete, but we agree on the promotion that you spoke about after verification of the sources.
Same thing for the promotion of the pawn in Tenjiku Shogi.
So I modified our rulesets for the next release.
Regards,
Eric
RE: Lack of Tokin in ExtendedShogi set - RubixOne - 05-01-2023
Thanks.
In general, apart from certain exceptions, such as Dai Dai Shogi and Tori Shogi (where the Pawn/Pawn equivalent does not promote and promotes to Goose (XBetza: fAbD), respectively), the Pawn will generally promote to Tokin.